Game engine

[cdoublejj]

I'm just being funny but, basically i REALLY didn't care for it and after a while of trying to be open minded and watching videos and sharing web links and listening to reason i conceded.

Basically my problem was no serious/good racing game has been made for it just a bunch of shity mobile platform racing games and some youtube videos with shitty car handling.

After seeing some videos with good handling and physics and some of the advanced addons that can be purchased for a reasonable price i figured that would get us way further then 10 years of on and off coding, with poor communications between programers.

The down side is to get the good features unity costs money and so do the good addons but, i think unity is still more reasonable in pricing instead of costing in the hundreds of thousands. i think it's either a few thousand dollars or a chunk of the profits or maybe both. i need to go back and look at how much unity costs, specially since the new version works on windows, mac and linux.

[Marco]

I wonder if you already purchased a Unity3d license.

The movie in the first message of this post looks promising.

How much time did it take to create this demo? How's the learning curve? How's the balance between drag/drop/configure and real programming?

[cdoublejj]

Unity is free but, if you wanna go pro you will eventually have to get the pay for version but, as far as i know you can start working with the free version then pay for it and unlock the good stuff.

InXile is using Unity to make Wasteland 2 which is a 3 million dollar game nothing crazy but, not crap and made a decent developer, I think when the game is don't it will have been completed in a year to a year and half almost all of which is purely content.

Brian Fargo is saying that they like and it's saving them a lot of work. As to making a racing game with it based on the structure/game play of SR3 Unity has chance to really help out on top of proving a an already working engine vs the some what broken home made engine SR3 used to use after the switch from 2D. However for good Handeling and physics i'm firm believer that some addons will more than likely be needed.

That Demo from what I remember was wiped up in a matter of minutes, it's purley a proof concept, as far as as development speed/help I agree that it looks promising.

[Marco]

I think I'll take a look at Unity as well.
The features got me interested.

[cdoublejj]

Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version. how ever i think it is now fully cross platform or close too.

[Shigsy]

Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version.

In my experience of game programming (I've written games in Java, JavaScript and recently started with Unity) this is not true. I am a programmer, it's been my job for 9 years, and I've always had a game on the go in my spare time.

I started messing around with Unity and with not much time invested I've the basics of a 3D RTS written in JS (a C&C style game). You can click a factory icon in the HUD, move it around using the mouse and click to place/build it. That opens new options to build tanks which spawn from the factory. You can left click a tank to select it, then right click elsewhere and it will rotate in that direction and drive there. You can even drag a selection box over multiple tanks and get them all to drive to somewhere. These are the core basics of any RTS which is why I started with them. You keep getting bogged down in too much details too early before even having an organised group of people who can identify and deliver on the basics of a SR style game.

The issue with this project (I was on these forums more than 10yrs ago) is aiming too high. You need to be realistic... how many programmers do you have? Forget 3D models, that's the icing on the cake. Make a game from primitives first, using very rough shapes. Dropping in fancy models is the last 5% of any game. Look at most posts on this forum, they relate to impressive looking models and people talking about controller support or multi-OS support etc... there is no game! When designing a new plane do Airbus start by choosing the paint scheme? If you can't get a very basic SR game going first then you'll never get anywhere.

To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.

Start with a 2D sequel (SR was 2D and is still fun to play) and if you can get organised enough to see that through to a fully finished and playable game then you could consider a 3D sequel to that. If you can't, then taking on a 3D game is a pointless death march. A fun finished 2D game is better than 5% of a shit 3D game.

[Maxaxle]

To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.

You...wouldn't still have it, would you?

[Shigsy]

lol

I'm pretty certain I do, yes. It is nothing close to the type of project that's been proposed here for the last 10 years, it was a much more realistic goal: Make a better version of SR2 which runs in a browser. To achieve that I set the following goals before writing a single line of code:

- Make a clone of SR2 (using temp sprites drawn in MS Paint to intentionally look shite so as not to ever waste time trying to make anything look good) initially ignoring all racing elements
- Add racing elements to the game, only the same race types as were possible in SR2
- Add more parts, features, race types etc to have a better version
- Email all 2D sprite images to a 2D graphics artist and pay them to make "nice" versions

Myself and a friend then spent a few hours a week in our spare time, for about 3 weeks, so in total we spent about 16 man-hours i.e. the equivalent of 1 person spending two full 8hr days on it. We got as far as having 90% of the first goal done.

I think everyone here wants a 3D game so won't understand the draw of a 2D game. I personally think 3D was the death of gameplay. To have a sequel to SR2 that every SR2 fan would love, only requires the following improvements to SR2; cleaner/sharper modern 2D graphics, smoother racing with more of a real physics "feel", more cars and car parts including more tinkering/tuning options. That's it, it doesnt need 3D, it never needed 3D to make it good in the 1st place so why is that suddenly a big draw? People still love Tetris and Mario... they didn't have fancy graphics to hide behind so had to have a clever, fun and addictive core gameplay.

 

[Marco]

(a lot of text)

I agree with the above.

[Maxaxle]

1. So, does it run?
2. Does it run *well*?
3. Is it on a website at the moment, or is it on your computer or something?
4. If it's online, could you send us a link?

[Vaelor]

FYI Shigsy. be careful what you do with that "remake of SR2 that runs in a browser". A guy named Marco recently bought the copyrights to the Street Rod franchise and has done exactly that at www.streetrodonline.com . Just sayin'. I'd love to see your work actually, if you didn't mind? But don't go putting it online and live or you may get sued! =(

[Shigsy]

@Maxaxle:
It does run, yes, and runs perfectly fine. running JS in a HTML5 canvas is perfectly adequate for moving 2D sprites around a screen so I wouldn't worry about performance. It's not online; see reply to Venomous below

@Venomous:
Thanks for the tip, I wasn't sure what the legals were around the franchise so never put it online. To be honest, it's not complete enough to bother putting it online anyway as this is the current state of it:
- Start in an empty garage, current money shown at bottom right, can click on a newspaper in the bottom left
- Newspaper opens a new screen with ads for cars and parts. Can click to buy, then return to garage to see the car (currently all cars use the same image, which isn't even a classic let alone something from the correct era )
- Can click 3 different parts of the car to go to the related screen (engine, transmission, underneath)
- Some basic functionality on engine screen to drop engine in plus some parts from a parts list (if you bought the correct compatible ones in the newspaper).

Like I said, only about 16hrs work so its far from something worth releasing as an alpha but the groundwork is there. Not sure if I'll go back to it at some stage, probably will but enjoying Unity3D in the little free time I manage to allocate to dev at the min.

@Marco:
I didn't realise anyone bought the rights let alone was working on a remake (also browser based using JS!). I guess I'll stop so Haven't done anything on it in a loooong time so no big deal. Unity3D is great; you could consider that if/when a 3D sequel becomes an option. Looking forward to seeing what you produce, I must have a look around your site later when I get time. BTW, is your project on hold due to legal reasons or is it simply down to having no time to work on it at the moment? The reason I'm asking is that the preview URL only redirects to the main page... http://preview.streetrodonline.com

[Marco]

I didn't realise anyone bought the rights let alone was working on a remake (also browser based using JS!).

I chose to use plain DOM elements (with CSS3 for animation, jQuery for interaction and Java for server side state management) instead of canvas.

Unity3D is great; you could consider that if/when a 3D sequel becomes an option.

I reviewed Unity3D and it looks great for rapid (3d) development. On the downside, you have to learn a lot before you can produce something of quality.

BTW, is your project on hold due to legal reasons or is it simply down to having no time to work on it at the moment?

No time to work on it indeed.

The reason I'm asking is that the preview URL only redirects to the main page...

That's right, I took the preview server offline because it was wasting electricity (:

[Shigsy]

JS is the way to go alright, for a game like SR. I'm writing my Unity game in JS too actually   Good luck with the project, I'll keep an eye on your site now and then to see how you're getting along.

I also need to find time to get back to some game dev, just been too busy the last few months to find any time for dev outside of work. On the plus side I'm not hugely busy in work at the min so spent yesterday writing a WebApp using NodeJS + expressJS and MongoDB. Would it be a bit too far to install Unity in work?

[cdoublejj]

Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version.

In my experience of game programming (I've written games in Java, JavaScript and recently started with Unity) this is not true. I am a programmer, it's been my job for 9 years, and I've always had a game on the go in my spare time.

I started messing around with Unity and with not much time invested I've the basics of a 3D RTS written in JS (a C&C style game). You can click a factory icon in the HUD, move it around using the mouse and click to place/build it. That opens new options to build tanks which spawn from the factory. You can left click a tank to select it, then right click elsewhere and it will rotate in that direction and drive there. You can even drag a selection box over multiple tanks and get them all to drive to somewhere. These are the core basics of any RTS which is why I started with them. You keep getting bogged down in too much details too early before even having an organised group of people who can identify and deliver on the basics of a SR style game.

The issue with this project (I was on these forums more than 10yrs ago) is aiming too high. You need to be realistic... how many programmers do you have? Forget 3D models, that's the icing on the cake. Make a game from primitives first, using very rough shapes. Dropping in fancy models is the last 5% of any game. Look at most posts on this forum, they relate to impressive looking models and people talking about controller support or multi-OS support etc... there is no game! When designing a new plane do Airbus start by choosing the paint scheme? If you can't get a very basic SR game going first then you'll never get anywhere.

To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.

Start with a 2D sequel (SR was 2D and is still fun to play) and if you can get organised enough to see that through to a fully finished and playable game then you could consider a 3D sequel to that. If you can't, then taking on a 3D game is a pointless death march. A fun finished 2D game is better than 5% of a shit 3D game.

You are preaching to the choir. the problem right now is well... one particular that can possibly be serious problem with out dealing with it first it could cause some serious problems.

also the last alpha used basic models instead of primitives but, i get what you are saying. would make it easier for a demo for something like KickStart or something.

i've spent some time thinking about some of the goals and wanted features vs development time/difficulty and looked at other games for solutions other games that SR3 draws from.

i.e. instead of having a fully explorable map how about a cork board with different locational posted up that you can go to just like in Hot Rod American Street Drag. it cuts down on map/area development and makes things simpler and easier with out detraction from the game or the iconic Street Rod formula keeping the game tied to it's roots all with out any major sacrifice.

What was told the Free version of Unity lack some major graphical features the 3d side, again it's all trivial until you really have stew boiling.

Isn't java script still considered slower than other languages?