StreetRod 3 forums

Street Rod 3 => Development => Topic started by: megariffer on May 18, 2012, 05:43:02 am

Title: Game engine
Post by: megariffer on May 18, 2012, 05:43:02 am
hello everybody!

since there was too much silence lately (at least about development), i decided to give you all a brief insight on what we are doing in the background.
we have aggreed, that we will start everything from scratch, so we won't use any of the old code of the alpha version (well maybe for reference, but this is unlikely).
development hasn't started yet though, we are discussing technologies and game engines.
we looked at many-many of them, and after a few weeks of research, two contestans remain:
unity3d (http://unity3d.com) and irrlicht (http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/)
both of them have their pros and cons.
- irllicht is totally free, it's totally cross-platform (linux also), but development is much slower.
- unity3d has a free version, but the pro version costs money, can't run natively in linux, but development is much faster. also we can relatively easily build our finished game for other platforms (iOS, XBOX360, PS3).

so basically what we are doing now is trying some things in both of these engines to see what will be the right track. we don't want to rush things, as this decision will define years of development (hopefully), so we want to make sure we made the right choice.
although i'm quite sure the decision will be made in the next few weeks at the latest.

we will be back soon with more info! stay tuned (like those V8s in the SR series)!

lastly take a look at this brief video, this shows our first attempt on using unity3d (so you can see we are not just sitting on our a**es here :)).
the car model and physics are from a unity3d tutorial, the garage is a few boxes threwn together, and the city was made by a city-generating engine.
test_1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYtSva5VNmM#)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: TSJ on May 18, 2012, 07:52:55 am
Looks very promising.

I have worked with Irrlicht before (using java and jirr) and you might be right that it is at a lower abstraction level than unity, but that also means more control.

If Irrlicht is selected then a other engines are needed as well, such as physics and maybe other things.

Unity is a complete game engine AFAIK.

But that the choice stands between these two is good news for me since I have experience with Irrlicht and I have been considering very seriously to learn how to use the unity engine.

I might jump into the code (to help out and at the same time learn a thing or two :)    )
when the engine choice(s) are made and the game development is underway.

 :)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on July 03, 2012, 12:10:20 am
Is anyone going to officially say that there has been some progress since that video?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on July 05, 2012, 02:05:51 pm
That there has been some progress since that video?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on July 05, 2012, 07:58:29 pm
That there has been some progress since that video?
As in, I hope the dev.s aren't trying to let the game write itself.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on July 07, 2012, 04:05:01 am
Trust I'm very prominent about keeping SR3 as it should be with every vein in my body, I certainly wouldn't let the game write it's self with out me being drug kicking and screaming. There is quite a bit of history and pre planning that people don't know about like the fact that sr3 is actually 12 years old and used to be 2d and had multiplayer options.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Vaelor on July 14, 2012, 11:06:42 am
That there has been some progress since that video?
Not funny Chris.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on July 31, 2012, 12:37:58 pm
used to be 2d
what
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on August 01, 2012, 04:10:47 am
In the late 90s early 2000s SR3 was 2D like the first two Streetrods.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on August 01, 2012, 04:27:35 pm
In the late 90s early 2000s SR3 was 2D like the first two Streetrods.
Interesting. Top-down perspective while racing, I assume?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on August 01, 2012, 06:46:56 pm
No, 3rd and first person from the screenshots i have. We don't have a screen shots gallery up yet.
Enjoy...
http://imgur.com/a/EAOC5#0 (http://imgur.com/a/EAOC5#0)

Once we get our shit together, I think with proper planning and "marketing" as i call it we can show people what a great long lasting project this is and what supportive fan base it has to help recruit new developers to help get things in gear.

Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: K52 on August 02, 2012, 12:15:36 am
gota love that guys face at the diner  :o
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on August 02, 2012, 03:09:11 pm
gota love that guys face at the diner  :o
The guy makes Max Payne look like a wimp.

BTW, about the newspaper: What if it *occasionally* had a funny message, in line with the trope "Someone Else's Problem"? (if you have no idea what a trope is, check out TVTropes and allow it to ruin your life)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: K52 on August 02, 2012, 10:07:25 pm
the news should have all sorts of odd articles, i could probably whip a few up or we could find some real ones from that time
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on August 07, 2012, 05:43:49 pm
the news should have all sorts of odd articles, i could probably whip a few up or we could find some real ones from that time
I can see it now..."5 dead after freak paper plane accident"..."Million-year-old steam engine found in Turkey"..."How Explosive is YOUR Car?"..."[celebrity] injured by [harmless animal or plant]"...
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: gecko on August 28, 2012, 05:19:29 am
returnig to the game engine topic, i personally think that unity would be a great choice based on the fact that is a very popular platform right now, so it's going to be easier to find collaborators with good knoledge of the language.
Or there are going to be a lot of resources to learn from.

PD: Hi! it's my first post. Im happy to see that the project is still going!
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on August 28, 2012, 05:35:35 pm
It took a while i've been on board with unity specially seeing some of the racing game tailored packages available in the store. One thing bothers/worries me no one has released a serious racing game with it. All I ever see are cartoony or arcade mobile racing games.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: gecko on August 28, 2012, 06:36:41 pm
Oh, i see.

But in this case the racing aspect of the game doesn't need to be an extreme serios simulation, it just needs to "feels good", and react somehow to the equiped parts of the car.

I'm just saying this because i would like to help in development (or anything), so i just think that Unity LOOKS easier to learn.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on October 05, 2012, 03:16:40 am
That is pretty much it but, by feels good i mean some what realistic. in fact if any thing it is mater of physics plus handling combined. we can't get super sim close but, could get close, think gta iv but, tweaked.

also unity has racing game/support addons. they just cost money.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: zemstafreda on November 03, 2012, 09:26:40 am
Pro version of Unity costs 1,5k $, it shouldn't be hard to raise it and a few thousands more on Kickstarter or something similar.

BTW, with new Unity 4 you can port your game to Linux.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: zemstafreda on November 03, 2012, 09:59:39 am
One thing bothers/worries me no one has released a serious racing game with it. All I ever see are cartoony or arcade mobile racing games.


http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/87166-My-first-Unity-Racing-game (http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/87166-My-first-Unity-Racing-game)
http://www.gamesradar.com/auto-club-revolution-hands-preview/ (http://www.gamesradar.com/auto-club-revolution-hands-preview/)
http://www.unityracingkit.com/ (http://www.unityracingkit.com/)

I think you can make quite realistic racing game with unity.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on November 08, 2012, 07:16:48 am
That is true it looks very possible. However as originally stated I haven't seen any thing more then a few small cellphone-esq arcade racers. From what I've been told it's doable though.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Battlewagon on December 03, 2012, 07:06:28 pm
I think, as I've said elsewhere on the boards today (Hello, everyone, I'm not here.   :)), that Street Rod 2, because it was about modding, never achieved perfect simulation.  Given the higher standards today, obviously we want this game to be better than NFS and this other junk that's being produced right now, but I don't care if these cars are not perfect replications of what the cars are like in stock trim.  Indeed, they're supposed to be hot rods.  A stock one should run roughly like a stock one, but being extreme about it might not be a good idea. 

On another point, making this game port-able is also a good idea, including for mobile devices, as the computer gaming world may be in transition to (a) new operating dominant system(s) at the moment.  Windows and Mac OS are in decline, while Linux, Android (okay that's Linux), iOS, and even Unix are all being used more than ever before.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this.

I would be happy with either of the above engines, and will endorse the engine most supported by the people who have to write the code.  If I participate in this project, I expect more to be involved in content generation, as I was on Redline (although independently with many other plug developers, not while working for Ambrosia).  Again, I won't be saying anything new if I press the coders to decide before everyone loses interest.  As of now, this project (according to what I've read) has been even longer in development than Redline.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on December 04, 2012, 12:50:40 am
Your first point in pretty much dead with how feel.

Unity actually makes the game portable the new unity would allow us to do win/mac/linux and possibly mobile device but, i know mobile device would need a new set of low poly art, the up shot to that is you coulds use that second set of low poly/res assets to make version for older/lower end computers as well.

Content generation for the this project has good chance as being as hard and or time consuming as the coding if not harder and or longer.

I think I'm the only standing team ember who has been around since the early 2000s but, there is/was a lot planned for sr3 with issues that still have to planned or panned out.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Battlewagon on December 04, 2012, 06:26:27 am
The later two versions (at least) of MS Flight Simulator actually had the option of doing multiple aircraft models for different resolutions.  It avoided defeating itself by only loading the one called for.  Usually there were two models and two texture sets, but I heard of developers who did more.  The AI planes generally were low-res, while player planes in hi-res were the higher ones.  The multiple models were for upgrading the resolution as you got closer to the planes, but this was only done in a few very advanced cases (usually dedicated AI plane packs).  I'm not saying that we should do this for SR3, but maybe having support for it would be good for those who want to try.  In turn, the lowest-res models could go into the mobile version....or maybe by the time the new SR3 is released mobile devices will have gotten back to Macbook-level performance (once people have realized that the iPad and the Galaxy have been ripoffs).  Until the iPad, after all, computers had been becoming unimaginably more powerful year after year, and so worries about apps being system hogs often turned out to be unfounded.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on December 04, 2012, 07:58:49 pm
well the AI will have the same cars/models as the players. interesting to know i'm not the only one with that idea.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: megariffer on December 11, 2012, 02:37:44 am
do you guys know about kickstarters big hit http://www.ouya.tv/ (http://www.ouya.tv/)?

i would love to see SR3 on this little beauty!
not to mention Unity's capability of deploying for android devices with just a few clicks!

i will try and build the part i already have for the game for android and try it on a nexus 7, since its hardware is very similar to ouya's. it it runs OK, we are good to go :)

Official OUYA Kickstarter Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U39L4mEyIRc#ws)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: K52 on December 11, 2012, 06:08:14 am
that would be cool and respect to these guys making a new console its only been well over a decade since something new came on the market and by new i dont mean ps2 to ps3
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on December 12, 2012, 02:19:07 am
do you guys know about kickstarters big hit [url]http://www.ouya.tv/[/url] ([url]http://www.ouya.tv/[/url])?

i would love to see SR3 on this little beauty!
not to mention Unity's capability of deploying for android devices with just a few clicks!

i will try and build the part i already have for the game for android and try it on a nexus 7, since its hardware is very similar to ouya's. it it runs OK, we are good to go :)

Official OUYA Kickstarter Video ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U39L4mEyIRc#ws[/url])


that would reinforce my idea for a low poly set of 3d models for slow computers, android, iOS, psp, ds, wii etc etc.

EDIT: Gabe Newel announce the new Steam/valve console is a go. I could see a flood of consoles in the near future since hardware is so cheap these days.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: megariffer on December 12, 2012, 11:58:02 am
since unity and OUYA are working hand-in-hand right now, i'm sure the hardware AND unity will be optimised together to have the best performance.
also, i did some tests, i made some builds with non-mobile projects, and it ran pretty smoothly on the nexus 7, which has the same CPU as OUYA.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on December 13, 2012, 05:48:11 am
since unity and OUYA are working hand-in-hand right now, i'm sure the hardware AND unity will be optimised together to have the best performance.
also, i did some tests, i made some builds with non-mobile projects, and it ran pretty smoothly on the nexus 7, which has the same CPU as OUYA.

I don't it's gonna handle multi hundred k poly models to well. not to stuff words in yours any one's mouth but, imho i'd prefer to not gimp the pc version for mobile.

That said i have saw the tegra 3 demo way back and that looked pretty slick as far as gpu performance for a mobile device.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: MF_FLED on April 24, 2013, 02:44:43 pm
Any news?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on April 25, 2013, 10:03:49 am
On what? What game engine we are using?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: MF_FLED on April 25, 2013, 12:47:55 pm
yes
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on April 26, 2013, 10:49:03 pm
I was told Unity. Last time we considered Unity we were looking at some pay for addons that improve upon unity car handling and physics.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Vaelor on May 24, 2013, 11:07:36 am
Yes, we will be using Unity. If we can scrape up a little cash, we will be buying a physics engine that we will definitely need to make SR3 any good.

(I know I just repeated what cdoublejj said, but I'm just confirming it officially.)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on May 24, 2013, 11:31:26 am
I know it may or may not make sense, but what if you write your own engine instead?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on May 25, 2013, 09:00:17 am
We did! That is the old SR3, then before deciding on Unity we were gonna use Irrlicht, it does most of the stuff like sound, graphics and physics but, every thing else has to made/coded by hand.

As much as I though Unity sucked combined with the fact it hasn't ever been used for a serious well known racing game ever before, I ended up being converted to the dark side.

Unity will do things for us with out sacrificing the game quality, or so I'm told. It's supposed to save time and labor.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on May 26, 2013, 03:41:09 pm
As much as I though Unity sucked combined with the fact it hasn't ever been used for a serious well known racing game ever before, I ended up being converted to the dark side.
what

Also: The only real upshot I can think of is that it allows for rapid prototyping and a finished (if not decent beta) in your hands, ready to port to a new engine or something like that.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on May 27, 2013, 12:23:34 pm
what do you mean what? you don't understand the words? well to make our own game engine could take over year, just working on the programming aspect. Not to mention we have no experienced game programmers.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on May 28, 2013, 04:04:18 pm
what do you mean what? you don't understand the words?
The "dark side" bit.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on May 29, 2013, 01:18:33 pm
wow you are really missing out there bud. the dark side bit is a star wars reference, i'm guessing you have never seen an any of the original star wars.

it means even though i thought i would never in a million years like Unity they persuaded me in to linking it and understanding it's features.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on May 31, 2013, 10:55:53 am
the dark side bit is a star wars reference
No, I got that bit.

it means even though i thought i would never in a million years like Unity they persuaded me in to linking it and understanding it's features.
Ohhh I see.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on May 31, 2013, 09:40:40 pm
"UNITY IS THE GOD DAMN DEVIL!"... "Hey we should probably use Unity."
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on June 01, 2013, 02:46:17 pm
"UNITY IS THE GOD DAMN DEVIL!"... "Hey we should probably use Unity."
Lol, did it actually happen like that? Maybe in a three-month period?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on June 02, 2013, 08:21:35 am
I'm just being funny but, basically i REALLY didn't care for it and after a while of trying to be open minded and watching videos and sharing web links and listening to reason i conceded.

Basically my problem was no serious/good racing game has been made for it just a bunch of shity mobile platform racing games and some youtube videos with shitty car handling.

After seeing some videos with good handling and physics and some of the advanced addons that can be purchased for a reasonable price i figured that would get us way further then 10 years of on and off coding, with poor communications between programers.

The down side is to get the good features unity costs money and so do the good addons but, i think unity is still more reasonable in pricing instead of costing in the hundreds of thousands. i think it's either a few thousand dollars or a chunk of the profits or maybe both. i need to go back and look at how much unity costs, specially since the new version works on windows, mac and linux.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Marco on July 30, 2013, 06:35:27 am
I wonder if you already purchased a Unity3d license.

The movie in the first message (http://forums.streetrod3.com/index.php?topic=31.msg101#msg101) of this post looks promising.

How much time did it take to create this demo? How's the learning curve? How's the balance between drag/drop/configure and real programming?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on August 03, 2013, 12:27:12 am
Unity is free but, if you wanna go pro you will eventually have to get the pay for version but, as far as i know you can start working with the free version then pay for it and unlock the good stuff.

InXile is using Unity to make Wasteland 2 which is a 3 million dollar game nothing crazy but, not crap and made a decent developer, I think when the game is don't it will have been completed in a year to a year and half almost all of which is purely content.

Brian Fargo is saying that they like and it's saving them a lot of work. As to making a racing game with it based on the structure/game play of SR3 Unity has chance to really help out on top of proving a an already working engine vs the some what broken home made engine SR3 used to use after the switch from 2D. However for good Handeling and physics i'm firm believer that some addons will more than likely be needed.

That Demo from what I remember was wiped up in a matter of minutes, it's purley a proof concept, as far as as development speed/help I agree that it looks promising.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Marco on August 19, 2013, 07:14:32 am
I think I'll take a look at Unity as well.
The features got me interested.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on August 20, 2013, 12:00:56 am
Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version. how ever i think it is now fully cross platform or close too.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Shigsy on September 12, 2013, 04:40:41 am
Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version.

In my experience of game programming (I've written games in Java, JavaScript and recently started with Unity) this is not true. I am a programmer, it's been my job for 9 years, and I've always had a game on the go in my spare time.

I started messing around with Unity and with not much time invested I've the basics of a 3D RTS written in JS (a C&C style game). You can click a factory icon in the HUD, move it around using the mouse and click to place/build it. That opens new options to build tanks which spawn from the factory. You can left click a tank to select it, then right click elsewhere and it will rotate in that direction and drive there. You can even drag a selection box over multiple tanks and get them all to drive to somewhere. These are the core basics of any RTS which is why I started with them. You keep getting bogged down in too much details too early before even having an organised group of people who can identify and deliver on the basics of a SR style game.

The issue with this project (I was on these forums more than 10yrs ago) is aiming too high. You need to be realistic... how many programmers do you have? Forget 3D models, that's the icing on the cake. Make a game from primitives first, using very rough shapes. Dropping in fancy models is the last 5% of any game. Look at most posts on this forum, they relate to impressive looking models and people talking about controller support or multi-OS support etc... there is no game! When designing a new plane do Airbus start by choosing the paint scheme? If you can't get a very basic SR game going first then you'll never get anywhere.

To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.

Start with a 2D sequel (SR was 2D and is still fun to play) and if you can get organised enough to see that through to a fully finished and playable game then you could consider a 3D sequel to that. If you can't, then taking on a 3D game is a pointless death march. A fun finished 2D game is better than 5% of a shit 3D game.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on September 13, 2013, 12:25:02 am
To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.
You...wouldn't still have it, would you?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Shigsy on September 15, 2013, 05:55:46 am
lol ;)

I'm pretty certain I do, yes. It is nothing close to the type of project that's been proposed here for the last 10 years, it was a much more realistic goal: Make a better version of SR2 which runs in a browser. To achieve that I set the following goals before writing a single line of code:

- Make a clone of SR2 (using temp sprites drawn in MS Paint to intentionally look shite so as not to ever waste time trying to make anything look good) initially ignoring all racing elements
- Add racing elements to the game, only the same race types as were possible in SR2
- Add more parts, features, race types etc to have a better version
- Email all 2D sprite images to a 2D graphics artist and pay them to make "nice" versions

Myself and a friend then spent a few hours a week in our spare time, for about 3 weeks, so in total we spent about 16 man-hours i.e. the equivalent of 1 person spending two full 8hr days on it. We got as far as having 90% of the first goal done.

I think everyone here wants a 3D game so won't understand the draw of a 2D game. I personally think 3D was the death of gameplay. To have a sequel to SR2 that every SR2 fan would love, only requires the following improvements to SR2; cleaner/sharper modern 2D graphics, smoother racing with more of a real physics "feel", more cars and car parts including more tinkering/tuning options. That's it, it doesnt need 3D, it never needed 3D to make it good in the 1st place so why is that suddenly a big draw? People still love Tetris and Mario... they didn't have fancy graphics to hide behind so had to have a clever, fun and addictive core gameplay.

 
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Marco on September 17, 2013, 09:13:56 am
(a lot of text)

I agree with the above.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Maxaxle on September 18, 2013, 09:54:57 pm
1. So, does it run?
2. Does it run *well*?
3. Is it on a website at the moment, or is it on your computer or something?
4. If it's online, could you send us a link?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Vaelor on September 19, 2013, 11:19:35 am
FYI Shigsy. be careful what you do with that "remake of SR2 that runs in a browser". A guy named Marco recently bought the copyrights to the Street Rod franchise and has done exactly that at www.streetrodonline.com (http://www.streetrodonline.com) . Just sayin'. I'd love to see your work actually, if you didn't mind? But don't go putting it online and live or you may get sued! =(
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Shigsy on September 23, 2013, 05:52:45 am
@Maxaxle:
It does run, yes, and runs perfectly fine. running JS in a HTML5 canvas is perfectly adequate for moving 2D sprites around a screen so I wouldn't worry about performance. It's not online; see reply to Venomous below ;)

@Venomous:
Thanks for the tip, I wasn't sure what the legals were around the franchise so never put it online. To be honest, it's not complete enough to bother putting it online anyway as this is the current state of it:
- Start in an empty garage, current money shown at bottom right, can click on a newspaper in the bottom left
- Newspaper opens a new screen with ads for cars and parts. Can click to buy, then return to garage to see the car (currently all cars use the same image, which isn't even a classic let alone something from the correct era :P)
- Can click 3 different parts of the car to go to the related screen (engine, transmission, underneath)
- Some basic functionality on engine screen to drop engine in plus some parts from a parts list (if you bought the correct compatible ones in the newspaper).

Like I said, only about 16hrs work so its far from something worth releasing as an alpha but the groundwork is there. Not sure if I'll go back to it at some stage, probably will but enjoying Unity3D in the little free time I manage to allocate to dev at the min.

@Marco:
I didn't realise anyone bought the rights let alone was working on a remake (also browser based using JS!). I guess I'll stop so :( Haven't done anything on it in a loooong time so no big deal. Unity3D is great; you could consider that if/when a 3D sequel becomes an option. Looking forward to seeing what you produce, I must have a look around your site later when I get time. BTW, is your project on hold due to legal reasons or is it simply down to having no time to work on it at the moment? The reason I'm asking is that the preview URL only redirects to the main page... http://preview.streetrodonline.com (http://preview.streetrodonline.com)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Marco on September 24, 2013, 08:40:02 am
I didn't realise anyone bought the rights let alone was working on a remake (also browser based using JS!).
I chose to use plain DOM elements (with CSS3 for animation, jQuery for interaction and Java for server side state management) instead of canvas.

Unity3D is great; you could consider that if/when a 3D sequel becomes an option.
I reviewed Unity3D and it looks great for rapid (3d) development. On the downside, you have to learn a lot before you can produce something of quality.

BTW, is your project on hold due to legal reasons or is it simply down to having no time to work on it at the moment?
No time to work on it indeed.

The reason I'm asking is that the preview URL only redirects to the main page...
That's right, I took the preview server offline because it was wasting electricity (:
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Shigsy on September 25, 2013, 04:53:55 am
JS is the way to go alright, for a game like SR. I'm writing my Unity game in JS too actually :)  Good luck with the project, I'll keep an eye on your site now and then to see how you're getting along.

I also need to find time to get back to some game dev, just been too busy the last few months to find any time for dev outside of work. On the plus side I'm not hugely busy in work at the min so spent yesterday writing a WebApp using NodeJS + expressJS and MongoDB. Would it be a bit too far to install Unity in work? ;)
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on September 30, 2013, 06:23:12 am
Just remember to make a decent full fledged game you will probably have to get the pay for version.

In my experience of game programming (I've written games in Java, JavaScript and recently started with Unity) this is not true. I am a programmer, it's been my job for 9 years, and I've always had a game on the go in my spare time.

I started messing around with Unity and with not much time invested I've the basics of a 3D RTS written in JS (a C&C style game). You can click a factory icon in the HUD, move it around using the mouse and click to place/build it. That opens new options to build tanks which spawn from the factory. You can left click a tank to select it, then right click elsewhere and it will rotate in that direction and drive there. You can even drag a selection box over multiple tanks and get them all to drive to somewhere. These are the core basics of any RTS which is why I started with them. You keep getting bogged down in too much details too early before even having an organised group of people who can identify and deliver on the basics of a SR style game.

The issue with this project (I was on these forums more than 10yrs ago) is aiming too high. You need to be realistic... how many programmers do you have? Forget 3D models, that's the icing on the cake. Make a game from primitives first, using very rough shapes. Dropping in fancy models is the last 5% of any game. Look at most posts on this forum, they relate to impressive looking models and people talking about controller support or multi-OS support etc... there is no game! When designing a new plane do Airbus start by choosing the paint scheme? If you can't get a very basic SR game going first then you'll never get anywhere.

To prove the point, I started writing my own 2D SR game with a friend using JavaScript and had something closer to the feel of a SR game in a few weeks than has been produced here in 10 years (runs in your browser). We focused on the garage, not the racing; why? Because that was actually the core of SR, not the racing! It's also much easier to get that stuff working than to nail car physics so do ALL of that first. Seeing lots of progress, and I mean playable progress, is the best motivation to do more.

Start with a 2D sequel (SR was 2D and is still fun to play) and if you can get organised enough to see that through to a fully finished and playable game then you could consider a 3D sequel to that. If you can't, then taking on a 3D game is a pointless death march. A fun finished 2D game is better than 5% of a shit 3D game.

You are preaching to the choir. the problem right now is well... one particular that can possibly be serious problem with out dealing with it first it could cause some serious problems.

also the last alpha used basic models instead of primitives but, i get what you are saying. would make it easier for a demo for something like KickStart or something.

i've spent some time thinking about some of the goals and wanted features vs development time/difficulty and looked at other games for solutions other games that SR3 draws from.

i.e. instead of having a fully explorable map how about a cork board with different locational posted up that you can go to just like in Hot Rod American Street Drag. it cuts down on map/area development and makes things simpler and easier with out detraction from the game or the iconic Street Rod formula keeping the game tied to it's roots all with out any major sacrifice.

What was told the Free version of Unity lack some major graphical features the 3d side, again it's all trivial until you really have stew boiling.

Isn't java script still considered slower than other languages?
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Shigsy on September 30, 2013, 06:43:23 am
The main selling point of JS is that it's fast to write and execute. Unity has been used for quite a few major commercial titles across all platforms at this stage and you can use either JS or C# for all of your code, so I wouldn't worry about performance to be honest.

If you're writing a simple 2D game first, just a tarted-up version of SR2, then you don't have Unity or anything else to add overhead so it'll be even faster again.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: cdoublejj on October 10, 2013, 05:28:35 am
since it is 3d we were original looking at irrlicht which by happen stance is being used for these guys who doigna terrific job, https://openmw.org/en/  as well as another racing game, Tux Kart.

it handles 3d, physics and i think sound or part of the sound for you, but, unity does even more of the work for you and as far as i know it has linux support now. i couldn't see us developing a good in house engine even with money, at least not with out BUKU money.
Title: Re: Game engine
Post by: Battlewagon on November 16, 2013, 05:22:18 pm
Sorry if I'm barging in on this issue, but I have two points, which I've partly detailed elsewhere.  Firstly, what engine does TORCS use?  It's open-source, I've heard, and I've tinkered with it a little, but I don't know much else about it.  The problem, I would think, would be more integrating the other SR features like the garage, the moddable cars, etc. which TORCS isn't even close to having.  For that matter, it's difficult even getting nice views of the cars you're developing so that you can correct bugs.  I haven't found a freecam function, for example. 

And on the second point.........if we want to start developing content, particularly cars and mods, what formats should we use?  What file types, poly counts, and so one should be used?  I've noticed some screenshots of a supposed new SR3 around the internet that seems much more detailed than the beta, so I assume someone is already making content for it.  If I want to build something, how should I do it?  I'm thinking of making some TORCS cars initially, but then how should I convert those cars for SR3?